Oh wait you mean a government can't just do whatever it wants and say it's OK?
Waterboarding, sexual threats and sleep deprivation were among the torture tactics CIA agents used after 9/11, according to a much-anticipated Senate report, a summary of which was released on Tuesday.
The Senate Intelligence Committee compiled a 6,000-page "torture report," detailing how the CIA handled its prisoners during the so-called 'war on terror.' The report also said the tactics did not aid in locating and killing Osama bin Laden. The torture practices began during the presidency of George W. Bush, though the CIA hid its methods, the breadth of the torture programs and the effectiveness of torture from the Bush White House, according to the report.
Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International are among those calling for prosecution.
You can read the full report here: http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/images/12/09/sscistudy1.pdf
If harsh interrogation techniques require prosecution by the UN then what do Drone strikes with Hellfire missiles demand?
Give it a rest! You are dealing with people who show NO VALUE to any human life, including their OWN. How do you fight a war with one side following the rules and the other not?????? You don't!!! Like it or not, you have to get down in the mud with them.
Senator Diane Feinstein is a HERO! A true American Patriot
Feinstein is a traitor!
to bad we can;t ask the people that died in the world trade towers what they think about this..
Obama should present Senator Feinstein with a Medal
Obama is the President, so if he felt it was warranted to release the report, I don't know why he couldn't? If there is nothing wrong with torturing folks, the report should not bother anybody?
torture is inhumane we have to expose all those people who are guilty, so they can learn and we all can learn from it.we are a civilized democratic society.
Our history is full of incidents where we forget the laws e.g. japanese internment, treatment of blacks as slaves, support of aparthied in palestine and on and on. We can preach but not practice and we see it every Sunday in our churches.
Daine Feinstein has manged to put our soldiers and overseas Americans in danger although it be known for years, so why the release of details by the Democrats? She been gainfully removing or attempting to remove constitutional rights from Americans and she now concerned with foreigners. Would it be a political diversion from the fact Democrats lost the Senate majority, Obamacare [ACA} rates will increase 25 percent reducing its affordability or the fact most of the people that signed up for Obamacare went to Medicaid and pay nothing for healthcare? The rich wicked witch of the west said she would feel bad if an American was killed. Perhaps she should tour Afghanistan and Iraq with only her personal body guards.
I don't agree with the torture. I think it was good the Senate Intelligence committee released the report. I don't like the idea of the CIA running around amok not being accountable to anyone. That's how our Republic would morph into something else. Senator McCain also agreed that torture is inappropriate. Having said that, I'm sick to death of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty international. I can only imagine what they would have said during WW2 with the Allied bombing of French and German cities to liberate France and end the Nazi reign of terror. As far as I'm concerned, ISIL and AL WTF are just as bad as the Nazi SS!
I would move to CA just to vote for Senator Diane Feinstein. She is a very Brave soul that has stood up for the American people.
Um sorry +fixento but Bush put our soldiers and overseas Americans in danger by approving torture. If there was political motive to the timing that's another story.
+Bailey Katts Except that the torture (or being down in the mud as you would call it) produced nothing of value. So we didn't get down in the mud, we sunk lower than that and for no reason.
+Peter Yurkins I've heard rumors she is going to retire after her term is up.
Kelly B. Pull your head out. Blacks are not even the largest group of people to ever be enslaved, nor are they they only group that suffers prejudice in today's world… they are one of the groups that whine the loudest. ALL peoples have suffered as slaves. ALL poor suffer in today's world. The thing to do is stop whining!! — which only perpetuates the negative image of any group that whines!
The only way to "learn" from this fiasco would be to punish those involved. This torture plan was just plain ugly, and the Republicans are not doing themselves any favor by defending the Bush era or pretending that his legacy was compatible with anything even remotely "conservative;" let alone libertarian, moderate…etc..
The two parties have to reign-in "The Imperial Presidency" if there is any hope of getting back to a proper division of powers as outlined by the Constitution. We are not weak for failing to take a military "race to the bottom." If that is honestly argued, why are we using drones now; why not empty Abu Ghraib and saw "enemy combatant's" heads off coupled with a pork-fat enema! I'm sure that will fix their little red wagons!
I am sorry to break the sad news, but if you are going to be members of a civilized country, there are certain things you simply do not do.
One might as well argue we needed American Death Camps (for Germans) so we wouldn't be at a disadvantage when we fought Nazi Germany!
The Bush regime was filled with war criminals and traitors that need to be jailed for life.
Let the trials begin.
+Kelly Broxton
Apartheid in Israel? You mean the ONLY country in the middle east where all citizens, Arab or otherwise, enjoy freedoms they would NEVER see in their lifetimes in their Arab brother's countries? Grow up Kelly.
The people the US remanded/caught were/are blood thirsty savages who to this day want to erase our culture and our lives based on some twisted notion of their own religion. What do yo uthink is going on with ISIS right now? ugh. The ignorance is astounding.
+kelly broxton Dont listen to them they are godless people with hateful souls I agree with your comments.
+Mark Abolafia
Pure Zionist propaganda. Fact, there are more Synagogues in Tehran than there are Mosques in all of occupied Palestine.
The "Blood Thirsty Savages" are the ones that slaughtered entire families in Gaza and murdered 34 US Sailors attacking the USS Liberty.
Be honest here. What was your predisposition to the question? (I don't think using these methods – whether they constitute torture or not) was a good idea. We lost the moral high ground (which is really only useful with our friends – our enemies don't really care anyway). But, if the report had said there was value, would that have changed your opinion on whether it was right? And, the minority report and the CIA rebuttal (issued by the current president's CIA director) disputed the assertion there was no value. Seems not everyone is in agreement and just maybe the position of the majority report on the value was impacted by which side of the aisle the chair of the committee sat on and her predisposition on the question. If the report had not been published before the senate adjourned, the majority report may have said something a lot different. Then you would have been claiming it was a white wash?
+Clive Blanston You mean the like the special camps for Japanese.
Gruber was right. The American people are stupid. We send drones to kill often killing innocents and we bomb oiur enemies to obliterate the. But if we miss and end up capturing him, we have to make nice. Really!!!
Good old Diane. Why doesn't she visit the Middle East and chastise them for rape, beheadings, civil unrest, mutilation and the list goes on and on. Rules of engagement only apply to the U.S.? What is Diane trying to do? Turn Americans on Americans? Maybe she can establish training camps for the terrorist within the U.S. borders. That could hurry our annailation.
+Peter Yurkins Diane Feinstein and her husband are war profiteers nothing more nothing less.
This is a good start; but I will be surprised if the war-criminals actually face any punishment or prosecution that results in any.
+Michael Ludke TY for the reply, she is also a Brave patriot and a Hero
These people revoked their humanity when they started slaughtering innocents through terrorism. They get no human rights because they are no longer human. Wake up. They wouldn't think twice about slitting your throat given the opportunity.
+swgemucrush I agree the USA has been promoting terror for a long time I am glad Diane did this
Visit a VA hospital and see all of the Americans with missing limbs and/or brain damage. Then discuss torture. I will agree the US spent too much time in the last 70 years subverting change in other countries,
+swgemucrush
Are you really that stupid ? All these people are doing is reacting to the tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children the Bush administration slaughtered in Iraq and Afghanistan. Get a clue, there was no Al Qaeda before the CIA created them. There was no ISIS before Bush created them.
Saddam would have wiped those freaks out in a heart beat, but Bush wanted to be a "War President". Instead he turned out to be a "War Criminal".
+Mike Williams Amen!
I agree we should be nicer than this to our enemies when they are in our control. It really is the basis for reducing some of the violence in war and being able to clean up effectively after it. It is, on the other hand, well established that the US has done far, far worse than the contents in this report in the US Civil War (in which we starved some of our captives to death), WWII (in which we summarily executed some captives), and the Korean War (in which we convinced captives we were going to execute them by summary execution). My point is that the Senate report is really not new news–it is normal behavior during times of war, as any historian can attest.
+Glenn Van Acker
As with most politicians, Diane is simply playing to her constituency. They expect shrill pontification on torture, so she is shrilly pontificating. <grinning very widely>
This guy clearly doesn't understand our enemies. I wonder how he would feel if one of his kids had faced the decision of whether to roast alive in a 1500 degree jet fuel fire or jump from his 95th floor WTC office window. #neverforget
+Bailey Katts So instead of standing for justice and truth in spite of the difficulty, all we did was prove to the those in the civilized world that you can't expect better of us than terrorists.
Forget the terrorists for a minute- what exactly do you think we gain by proving Putin, Kim Jong Un, and Assad correct when they call us imperialist thugs?
What right do we have to claim "leadership" in the world when we so callously say to hell with doing the right thing?
+Clive Blanston
"The two parties have to reign-in "The Imperial Presidency" if there is any hope of getting back to a proper division of powers as outlined by the Constitution. "
I couldn't agree more. We can't meet this threat by simply dealing them the same medicine that they use. They slaughter innocents as a policy, they rape as a policy, they kidnap and enslave young girls as a policy… We have to decide whether we want to descend to their level or not… It's obviously a simple choice.
We don't want to go there… and we want to put an end to it, or at least put it back in its bottle and get the cork back in place. Are we willing to pay that price?
You guys all think that we can overcome radical islam by being nice. I get it. Who drew first blood in this fight? #neverforget
Because beheading innocents is virtually the same as torturing known terrorists who have killed and maimed innocents without discrimination. /sarcasm
Thank goodness you guys have something else to talk about other than #benghazi #IRS , #fastandfurious , #grubergate #obamafail
+swgemucrush This wasn't just done to known terrorists, it was also done to people who have been cleared as innocent (and many remain detained in Gitmo despite being cleared).
You know what I am wondering? What's going to happen when we really get p***ed? In case you haven't realized it yet, we haven't really take our gloves off yet in this rather protracted, historically speaking "brush war". In WWII, Korea, and Vietnam we carpet bombed civilian populations (Dresden, Tokyo, Osaka, Seoul, Pyonyang, Hanoi and many others). That's conventional munitions, not nukes, by the way. And we haven't done that yet in this war, in fact nothing like it. We destroyed infrastructure in those wars at a rate we certainly haven't followed in this war, although we did some of that in Gulf II. What do you think it is going to look like when we cross those two lines, which we are likely to?
+Joe Burney Except that we use drones all the time and the government classifies anyone in the area of their target as a terrorist. So even if they ordered takeout and had it delivered, if the delivery guy is at the door when the bombs drop they call him a terrorist so that they can say no civilians were harmed.
I see a lot of people defending torture because they are angry at terrorists. They "deserve it" Those notions are motivated by a want of revenge. However, We have legal systems for justice. As a nation we stand for justice not revenge. That's what makes us civilized and free. The fact is that it doesn't yield results, and that voids any legitimately motivated argument for it anyway.
+Paul Spoerry
Exactly, and from the protein samples one would never be able to prove or disprove if they were really terrs or not. No court, no torture, no proof no backlash. An ingenious way to kill people. Hitler would be proud…
+Paul Spoerry
I agree with you. A lot of innocent people die from this approach. However, the alternative to pin-prick strikes and trying to maintain hegemonic military dominance (the cornerstone of US foreign policy for over 150 years that is not about to change any time soon) is all-out warfare or getting walked on… and if we go to boots on the ground warfare the current arguments about torture will seem like a sandbox argument in kindergarten. And a whole lot more "innocents" (100 times, 1000 times? 10,000 times?) will die. I worry more about 100 Fallujahs in the Middle East with the civilian populations still in place, catching stray bullets shot by both sides. BYW did you know President Obama just asked Congress for war powers including boots on the ground? You can hear the boots a poundin' and you should be scared.
None of it sounds like torture, it sounds like the dirty work necessary to keep us safe from the barbarians who seek to harm us, I feel indebted to the CIA for their good work.
+Joe Burney you're so off topic I'm not even sure where to go with your replies. Are you arguing torture is OK because… war? Because bad shit happened in other wars this report and what transpired doesn't matter because…. war? Oh Obama asked for boots on the ground so let's ignore this report because… war?
+Ron Bockman Green lighting/commending torture makes us barbarians.
+Paul Spoerry I can't condone torture of the truly innocent. I have a hard time believing that those who found themselves in Gitmo were truly innocent. Simply because they were "cleared" of not knowing the information for which the CIA was seeking does not make them "innocent" by any means.
I still stand by statement that known terrorists and war criminals have turned in their humanity card, and no longer have any rights. Innocents are another story, but you're going to need to prove that one.
That's a dangerous place to put burden of proof +swgemucrush
+John Flori
I make a distinction between internment camps and DEATH camps.
+Joe Burney This whole mess goes back to the Bush administration looking foolish and flat-footed during 9/11. Cheney is on film explaining with perfect clarity why toppling Baghdad was a bad idea…trouble is, that was back during the Bush I administration. I can only assume too many heart-attacks reduced him to a high-functioning sociopath. Bush's apologists are trying to have it both ways: The fearless resolute leader who is the same "decider" who is in the dark from that nasty 'ol CIA. We need less involvement in the Middle East not more.
A perfect example of American Stupid is, "The Department of Homeland Security." Isn't that supposed to be the job of the regular U.S. Military? If it failed, as it did, why not reform it rather than trowel another layer of bureaucracy on top of the dysfunctional one beneath?
If we are a Nation of laws, and wish to be a "City on a Hill" example for other countries…perhaps we should stop behaving so @#$% lawless and stop worrying so much about poor little Dubya's feelings? He should consider himself lucky a serial-failure/drunk like himself gets to enjoy a fat pension and isn't doing time in the Federal Penitentiary.
+Julia Street Yeah. Terrorists are people too! Right Julia? So what they purposely targeted and killed thousands of innocent people. We should just sit them down and ask them nicely to stop. I'm sure they will comply.
After all, we created these terrorists, right? That's the narrative that you're pushing, right? This is OUR fault, not theirs! It's our fault we are being attacked by terrorists! Shame on us!!!
+Clive Blanston bla, bla Bush, bla bla no good, bla, bla 9/11, bla bla.
Obama has 2 new unfunded wars and has erased over 4000 lives by drones (not counting the bombing runs) . Yet silence ..where is the outrage?
I think there should be prosecutions if laws have been broken. Any other approach makes a mockery of our stated values. Of course Obama has made a lot of friends not prosecuting those who have hurt us the most such as Wall Street banksters and those who provided weapons to drug dealers as part of their job. Now we have the revelations of torture made plain. I ask myself is it safe to trust oneself to people whose respect for humanity is at the level we see in the torture report?
The CIA has not been effective at preventing terror attacks, why can it be thought it will be effective in the future? Think back to OK City, twice at the WTC, Once at the Pentagon and once at the Boston Marathon there are probably a few more instances where the agencies obligated to protect us simply did not do it and yet we are asked to give them our trust.
+Clive Blanston Btw I fully agree with you on the DHS, could have not said it any better
+swgemucrush lol what I meant was there is no proper channel for determining innocence or guilt. It's all confidential, no public process, no check on the people in power presuming guilt and labeling terrorists. So it's inherently treacherous to say they should prove their innocence or else torcher is fair.
+Julia Street Uh. No. It's not. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you failed to comprehend to what I was referring. No, I wasn't talking about proving their innocence when taken into custody. Yes, that WOULD be dangerous.
In fact, I was stating that Paul's claim that innocents were detained be proven. And in fact, there is proof! 26 of 119 detainees were wrongfully detained, which I will elect to interpret as innocent.
Even though, wrongfully detained could mean any number of things, as I mentioned before.
I could steal your television, and be wrongfully detained for murder.
BTW, Blaming Obama for Iraq is like taking Bush's full diaper off and taping to Obama and accusing him of the smell. Let's keep our eyes on who did what. Beyond that, we should reign in the Imperial Presidency to post-Nixon levels.
So, Clive, is a President responsible for the actions that take place during their term, before, or after? I've lost track now…
+swgemucrush I don't think +Julia Street failed to comprehend anything, I think you're extraordinarily unclear on what you're actually trying to say.
In one paragraph you state she didn't get what you were stating, that you weren't talking about proving their innocence when taking into custody and that would be dangerous (yet you fail to explain why).
You then say that my claim needed to be proven, but then go on to prove just that by stating 26 were wrongfully detained.
She wasn't stating that innocence had to be proven when apprehended, only that we detained them with no path for them to prove innocence or guilt. Detaining someone indefinitely without trial isn't right. On top of that forcing them to endure torture under the guise they might be a terrorist whilst is barbaric. Doubly so when your simultaneously denying them any legal mechanism by which they are to be accused or one which they can prove their innocence in the face of those accusations.
+Sky King We have been drawing blood for decades in the Middle East; some justifiable, some not.
"Radical Islam" is painting our enemy with too broad a brush. Stateless terrorism is a tactic, and without a state, there is no possibly of a surrender on the USS Missouri. It is very much like a grease fire some idiot decided to try and put out with hot water. You do not do that with a grease fire; you deny it oxygen.
I do not approve of everything Obama has done regarding the WOT. HOWEVER, he is mostly being forced to react to a lot of crap that flowed from decisions that were set in motion during the Bush years. Howling about Obama is a mental "device" the GOP has constructed to attempt to pretend the Bush II fiasco never happened. Let Bush take his hits, and I will be content to let Obama take his. The drone strikes are what he does because there is little public interest in "boots on the ground" in the delightful, "Campbell's Cream of Vietnam" soup we have been so much "enjoying."
If you want to get down to brass tacks, it would have made more sense for Bush to attack Saudi Arabia as 15 of the 17 9/11 dicks were Saudis!!
Is your solution instead to try to kill everything in sight that has Hummus on his or her breath? That approach reminds me of the idiot mob that wanted to burn the "Witch" in "Monty Python: and the Holy Grail" "Burn the witch!!" "How do you know she's a witch?" "…she has got a wart!!"
If you don't want to live under Islamic rule. Don't.
Our own Government report on 9/11 called it a product of "blow-back."
So who started the "blow?"
+swgemucrush It's a mess because there are issues of immunity, possibly statutes of limitations…hard to say. One thing is clear, the heads that rolled during the Abu Ghraib revelations were purely symbolic. "A couple of Rotten Apples?" My ass… It wouldn't surprise me if Obama gave them all a blanket pardon…not that the GOP would love him anymore for the gesture, but it would allow the criminals at the top to carry on business as usual…
Stupid-ass UN. It, along with other human rights organizations, jump on the Gitmo/torture fiasco like flies on shit. Where were they when full-on atrocities were being committed by UN member nations and other countries in full view of the international community? Rwanda and Genital Mutilation anyone? If they are on this world for a reason and not just impotent paper tigers then attention, investigation and prosecution of the comparitively horrific crimes committed by other nations needs to be followed up on. Torture? Ask any VietNam era vet what torture REALLY looks like; it would give some of you Munchkins nightmares. Then let's be fair and go after ALL human rights/torture violators and not the easily prosecuted and self-incriminated like the US.
PS: Fuck that flunkey cocaine sniffer GW and all of the circle-jerkers in Bush and Co. Worst Pres. Admin in US history! ( Yes, Connie, you, too)
Michael Kazin, how do you think we can get justice and truth from these animals?????????????????????????????????
+Cosmo Strator All human rights violators should be prosecuted. That doesn't take away anything posted here. Just saying, "yeah but if they don't do xyz then they shouldn't complain about abc" doesn't solve anything. They should do both… but this post wasn't about the others it was about the just released Senate Intelligence Committee report.
Recent reports have the CIA doing a 'round-the-world' "dance with the devil" in the past and present; and the legal ramifications will most likely affect several foreign countries. What a $&@/&@ snafu,! But I still think that the report should have been released at a different time; the national atmosphere is too volatile and hostile right now. I'd like to see the Attorney General be briefed and updated from the UN and other "prosecuting entities" on a regular basis before this turns into a sensationalistic kangaroo court wherein the American people get a bad rap because of a few. I know how it is when many nations hate an entire culture because of atrocities committed during wartime.
I think it unlikely. It will open up a can of worms no figure in public office will touch. Like Vietnam, there will probably be a blanket pardon… Ironic as BEING a felon is supposed to keep you OUT of office, and once there, you can render felons "free."
+Cosmo Strator when is the national atmosphere NOT volatile?