Microsoft is working on a Linux-style package management framework for Windows, and it’s included with Windows 10. It’s being tested with Chocolatey’s existing packages, and allows you to easily install desktop applications and other software.
This is huge news. If you’ve ever used Linux, you’ve probably wanted a package management system for the Windows desktop ever since. Now it’s finally arriving!
MOAR here: http://www.howtogeek.com/200334/windows-10-includes-a-linux-style-package-manager-named-oneget/
Looks confusing to me
So the backend repository will be Microsoft plus user defined ones I presume?
I think every system amin just rejoiced at the possibilities… Only 10 years late to market… although, that looks a lot like Nuget…
sounds good ¡
so, basically, NuGet for the desktop 😛
About damn time…
+Steven Farnell Uhh, unified package management has been around a bit longer than that. The APT toolset first appeared in Debian in the late 90's and I don't think it was the first product of its kind.
Also look forward to MS botching their implementation horribly.
Well it works with Chocolatey and that works pretty well. It'll be pretty nice (and WAY overdue) to be able to keep apps updated right from the OS.
In typical Microsoft case-tardedness, I notice the example lists VLC by name in lowercase yet the installation command's "-Name" parameter is "VLC".
Cool
Nice
FINALLY. Let's hope the community can have unlimited access
Why they are still using the fugly black command prompt and not moving on to something more modern and useful like Mac terminal is beyond me.
Welcome to the present
Damn hoax! It's powershell which comes with windows 8 and anyone can find it. And you get the same output in windows 8 😛
I'm not a Windows guy, but I thought it looked like Powershell, also. Thanks for clarifying +Abhijit Das
Package manger? Finally?
+Mark Mccurdy trust me I have worked for Microsoft Level 2 support team for more than a year I have never heard of anything like Windows 10. Microsoft is planning to make Windows 8.1 popular that's why they added few features and the screenshot you can see above it's powershell comes with Windows 8 Pro or plus not sure about Windows 8 without pro.
I use powershell on Windows 7 at work.
Finally I can install software on windows. Oh wait never mind.
That's brilliant!
Ooh lala 😛
+Abhijit Das is… not factual on any of this guys.
For one… considering you can download the preview version of Windows 10 pretty damn sure it exists LOL (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/preview-iso).
Also… I have 8.1 and use Powershell and that cmdlet isn't in there. You can try yourself by launching PowerShell and then typing in "Find-Package"
You CAN get it from GitHub if you'd like to play around with what they're building: https://github.com/OneGet/oneget
We really don't need another unreliable, unfinished product like Windows. Just stop making them, jeez.
Question: Can you pick third party repositories and take control over patch management?
Example 1: Microsoft decides it doesn't like people to have TrueCrypt or fgdump, it is my choice to have it, not theirs. Can I override any attempt from MS to remove it from my system?
Example 2: Microsoft decides it doesn't like people to install TrueCrypt, utorrent, Steam, or whatever. Can I just integrate the repositories of those providers in a way where it is solely and exclussively under my control to decide which repositories to include and what software to install?
+Paul Spoerry Microsoft was supposed to release an another update for more user flexibility. Can't say anything if they are planning to change their previous plan and make money again 😛 it was supposed to be free.
Too little too late. 🙂
3 years
Should be interesting to use
So the Windows packages ive been downloading in powershell via dism arent package's? They're just expanding a repository they already have and adding a marking name.
I can bet Microsoft will host repository and ask devs to pay subscription $$$ to use it.
+Jarek W
You are right..If if it start out free they will charge or some how get there peice of the pie..If they could find a way to take over linux computers by installing their stuff they once again are the monopolizing computer industry.. They are counting on people wanting convence over freedom again.. I found nothing convenient about havng sofware that leaks and screws up all the time..Hows that for convence..They could have fixed these problems along time ago but they could not sell so much stuff and services. Microsoft has ben implicate in coruption, to many ant trust issues, and poor labor practes for me to ever trust or want there stuff again..Boycott all microsoft stuff..
But I like linux more
Microsoft is going to have to make win10 free if it wants to catch this next wave of "layman orientated" OSes. Ubuntu, chrome os and even steam os are free and provide all the services windows does.
Yea windows 10 definitely would have to be free if they are going down this road. If not no lose to me. Still using linux.
+Brent Carman
They will never make it totally free and it is insecure by default.The way it operate make the whole computer vernable to attack everytime you go on the web..They could have fixed this but due to propiatory software enforcment policies they cannot fix the leaks to the parties contracted for another service.
I think Umbutu is going to incounter some of these issues in the near future..I use debian 7.6 Wheezy ( if you not teck savy have someone set up.. Freedom vs. convients.
+Sherry Winter I totally agree. But I don't think Ubuntu will ever be as broken as windows.
+Brent Carman
I hope so.. I really think mint is awsome too..Very easy to use..
What's the point of this? It's still Windows.
+Jair-Rohm Wells Just the same as in other systems. I think this is good news for IT guys that work with windows. Depends on what it really will look like in final release.
When I first saw PowerShell, I went cool Windows is copying Linux. Now I have to really laugh because they are really copying Linux. Which is great news.
I'm like: Just install GNU.
+Abhijit Das
Hahah I think your right:-)
bill can do nothing bt copy
Yes it is just copying Linux, but sometimes I want to use software that was made for Windows and doesn't emulate well. When that happens I find Windows mostly frustrating to use because the windows console sucks and because it lacks a decent package management system. I also wish they would just ship Windows with Firefox included.
Microsoft learning even more from Apple, just steal it and call it innovative.
+Brian Rohan
For the basic user even if it worked I think it would lead to massive problems..
+J Schwartz True, I remember my introduction to Linux in around 1996… Also, that makes me feel old… However, Windows has been the only OS without it for about 10 years.
+Sherry Winter I don't think this is targeted at basic users. More so, at system admins who need to keep large numbers of computers up to date, and need a way to run a scheduled job to check and install for updates frequently on tons of computers…
+Brian Rohan It's Apple's kind of innovation… steal what others made, and claim you came up with the idea. Although, this is clearly a Linux feature that Apple and Microsoft adopted.
It should be added that OneGet is Open Source. Even if the contributions are not exactly open, the sources are available on GitHub.
+Duane Erich Zaan
I don't think so..
+Sherry Winter I don't think so either, I know so.
I know using google is hard, so here is a link https://github.com/OneGet/oneget
What rubbish!
+Magda Wintar If you're referring to 8 then… well they took a big chance with the "metro" interface and it didn't work out. Can't blame them for trying and they're not the only one… Ubuntu takes chances with their UI. If you mean 7 then you're ludicrous because it's more stable that some of the Linux machines we have.
+Abhijit Das WHAT are you talking about? Another Windows release? 8.1 was free. Rumors say 10 will be free (the one you have no knowledge of but there is already a tech preview out anyone can download). If you mean the package manager the code is on GitHub. I posted the link.
+Jarek W It would make sense for them to charge. But if they make it similar to *nix repo's then you could always just add others.
+Brent Carman I dunno… Windows still has the lions share of the market. Not that others can't/shouldn't catch up but MS is so ingrained in the enterprise it'll be am uphill battle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems
+eirick luraas Agreed. I was stoked when PowerShell first came out and you can do some really slick admin things with it.
+Brian Rohan If anything they are copying Linux. Apple copies MS, MS copies Apple, etc. And don't forget, they both copy and stole from Xerox PARC.
+Duane Erich Zaan is right… it's on GitHub, you can download it now so… yeah… kinda already open sourced so stop making non-factual statements +Sherry Winter.
+Paul Spoerry Yep, active directory, ODBC and office are all prime examples of inferior products leading because of a fear of change, lack of support or more commonly both.
+Paul Spoerry True, Microsoft products are deeply ingrained in enterprise, but so in Linux. I think Microsoft nearly collapsed the desktop/laptop market with Windows 8, and enterprises are scared of locking into a product that displays all the problems Microsoft has advertised about Linux. (unpredictable changes, compatibility issues with new versions, and difficulty of maintainability.) I feel they are addressing many of these issues in Windows 10, but the fear will not disappear quickly.
+Brent Carman I can't speak to alternatives to AD, it's been years since I did anything admin-y like that, but you're crazy wrong on ODBC and Office. For one, ODBC isn't a purely Microsoft thing… it's a standardized way of accessing data by the SQL Access Group. Maybe you're thinking of OLE-DB, which even MS is dropping.
There is no equivalent to Office. Maybe for basic tasks, but there is no Office equivalent. I've used Libre, OO, Symphony, Office, Google Docs/drive/sheets/whatevertheycallitnow and there just ins't anything that can touch the massive feature set that Office has… again, provided you need all of it.
Support in the enterprise IS a feature, if your product doesn't offer support then it's not an enterprise app. It's one reason why RedHat is on of the big enterprise Linux flavors: support.
+Steven Farnell "Microsoft products are deeply ingrained in enterprise, but so in Linux." That's true in the server space, but not so much in the desktop space… I just recently left IBM, who trust me would do anything possible to not have to run MS software, and even their RedHat (RHEL, not Fedora… which I actually dig) roll out (which was supposed to replace all Windows installs) sucked, everyone hated it, it didn't work well, etc.
"I think Microsoft nearly collapsed the desktop/laptop market with Windows 8." I think they had a massive miss with Win8; that said they also had a massive miss with Vista and everybody decried the death of Windows but that didn't happen. They released Win7 and it's pretty damn rock solid. I think Win10 will be to Win8 what Win7 was to Vista. That said, I think the biggest challenge MS will be facing in the future will be the BYOD movement, virtualization… run a big-ass VMWare instance with VMWare Horizon View and you can buy a bunch of cheap Chromebooks and not even need a full blown PC. (http://blogs.vmware.com/euc/2014/02/google-chromebook-vmware-horizon-view-windows-applications.html) One of my closest friends works for VMWare, I've seen this stuff running and it's pretty slick.
I agree with everything up to ms office being superior. At least when it comes to calc vs excel. I found calc to be much more dependable. OpenOffice doesn't have as many templates out of the box but you can download a huge library of them after you install.
+Paul Spoerry I agree with you completely. People still depend on Microsoft for the Desktop (I need Visual Studio for work), but Linux is king in virtualization (at least everywhere I've worked) and cloud computing. I admit Azure has a fighting chance, but I don't see Windows taking the server market. However, that's just based on server deployments requests to my team. I have to say Win 10 runs mighty fine in a VM; Horizon View is a very compelling offering.
As of now, I do 50% of my work from a chromebook, I just remote into my home/work PC using the Chrome Remote Desktop plugin. My work PC is running Windows 8.1, but I still spend most of my time in a remote terminal (SSH or powershell).
I admit I have a strong bias for my personal computer. I have not had an MS product for personal use in years, and I pride myself in being able to accomplish any Windows task in Ubuntu. Even if that means running Windows games/software with CrossOver Linux or Wine.
Just install MSYS2. Forget oneget.
+Elie Azagoury
That is a good question. Who will have control over this power shell and repository( maybe a access fee later on as hype takes over) the owner of the system or the owner of your shell/ repository? will it eventually end up with others like third party's having control and or access to and over you computer..With out open source you do not know what is being installed.
Gawd +Sherry Winter you need to stop talking; +Duane Erich Zaan already pointed out the OSS repo on GitHub. You clearly have no idea how a package management system can work… because it can work both ways. Modern Linux distros have a TON of stuff in their main repo, but you can always add a third party one as well.
Same here +Steven Farnell I need Visual Studio for work, though since we do mostly Java these days I'm in Eclipse the most. I can't really decide which I dig more, but I certainly NEED Windows for Visual Studio for a couple projects.
All my personal sites run on Linux (usually CENTOS). Azure supports Linux BTW: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/10/microsoft-loves-linux-as-it-makes-azure-bigger-better/
When possible I try to use all web based software so it doesn't matter WHAT operating system I'm on.
Whoa!
+Paul Spoerry +Sherry Winter 's comment was about my question, a simple legit question. It is important for us users to know how this system will be implemented.
We already know tools of this kind are great and we've been asking for this for years, but the difference here is that the service is run by Microsoft, and Microsoft isn't Bill's BSOD Corporation anymore, it has changed and it has managed to earn itself a pretty BAD reputation. It has indulged in questionable practices like patent trolling and the extremely questionable cases of seizing domain services (Conficker case) and ultimately the abusive takeover of no-ip.org, which caused harm in an attempt to "solve" a problem that is not my problem, is not no-ip's problem, and is certainly not the problem of any of no-ip's customers.
So yeah, Windows is a quality product, poor in design but good in quality, but Microsoft is a problem company, it is very reasonable to ask if this addition will be offered in the way we hope to have it or if they have plans to let their bad behaviour limit the full potential of this addition to their system.
+Elie Azagoury Yeah… and that was answered. Additionally, if either had chosen to click through you'd see they address that very question:
"What package managers are supported?
Today, just Chocolatey. We will certainly be working on more in the future."
Does MS have a bad rep? I think that's a personal perspective; I know people who love them, and others who loath them. They're clearly not universally despised or people would vote with their dollars.
"…and is certainly not the problem of any of no-ip's customers." That's factually incorrect. While the judge for the case went totally overboard and granted them an epic shitton more than they needed, the reason they went after the domains in the first place was to take down two massive botnet ops. They succeeded; and it was customers of no-ip's service that were operating the botnets.
+Paul Spoerry You would imagine the Chocolatey answer made it obvious except I didn't even know what it was or that it existed and what it's features meant. So yeah, good to know it's an open system and not one that they can turn into a policing tool.
Windows and Office do not have a bad rep, Microsoft does. There's plenty of good reasons to buy Microsoft products, mostly because they work well, but the company is really behaving borderline bully. When Bill was there I felt their products were horrid but the company was mostly trustworthy.
The judge didn't go overboard, they issued an extremely shady seizure case missrepresenting facts, manipulating the judge's technical ignorance, not permitting the defendant to be informed or to defend itself in court and when the judge approved it, it meant seizure of no-ip's domain assets. If all of that is actually legal then "the system" seriously needs to be debugged.
As for the botnets, the thing with them is that they were not a threat to no-ip's customers, the botnets had never caused me any harm and I didn't care about them, they were there but they were not my problem, when MS took down the service, MS was in fact my problem, causing more harm than the botnet ever would have.
+Paul Spoerry
I am simply votting with my dollars and hope other will to.. I will never trust that company again.I am former dissatisfied customer and am very disapointed by there behavors socially.I also have to point out that the more people who have experance running linux and the more avalable it is the more microsoft will lose because of how they conducted them self on a national and international level.
+Sherry Winter first off, do you even Engrish? (seriously, when you type your post, those red lines under the words mean you didn't spell it right. Right Click -> select the word you meant. Please. That's what spell check is for.)
Anyways, please, tell me exactly why it is you hate Microsoft so very much. Prove to me this isn't just biased fan-ism.
How many Microsoft products have you actually dealt with? Visual Studio? SCCM? AppV? Azure? etc etc. I use all of these on a daily basis.. and they did a great job. There are some things I'll admit MS has in fact messed up on…. but all companies mess up somewhere.
Linux is a powerful system, and very reliable, yes. However, it's not exactly user-friendly. Your average consumer / user will take 5 minutes in Linux and freak out. So your statement about "the more people who have experience running Linux"… well, how are they going to get that experience?
I also laugh a little bit about your statement about Linux being more available. I'm pretty sure Linux is THE most available OS, considering it's free.
I've used both Linux and Windows. Personally, I prefer Windows, mainly for the fact that when I need to get something done, I just do it. I don't have to connect to a repo, git, build, debug, etc, or do anything like that. I just do what I want.
This package manager will in fact be a great addition, that is one of the things I loved about Linux… however – As I stated way up in the comments, MS has had this for quite awhile, in the form of NuGet, which is the same thing except for Visual Studio only, not the whole machine. It works great. I've come to love NuGet much, mainly because if I need a library / framework / something… NuGet it!
+Justin Mangum First I am responding because, I choose to. Your hostility towards my spell check which is still not working in the google app. it is the only app that it does not work in .I have dyslexia fy sorry for the inconvenience . Now I have had over 20 years working on microsoft windows, yes even fixing them.Most programes were awesome ..I take issue with their buisness practices. A free maket does not mean a free for all..Their anticompetitive and predatory behavior Here's the kicker not stable os..It by design is not stable if attacked.. After 6 months your brand new computer even with all the precausions cleannig cookies, clearing cash etc., reasonably software selections, no porn etc. and a robust security package, your computer will slow down. Within a year it will most likely be worthless unless fix and repair daily. As for why I am outraged at the company here is a link, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_litigation.. I took the time to respond and consider what you asked..Can and will you read that site and tell me you do not know why anyone would be upset. FYI the last crashed cost me time, documents
and about 17 hours of worlk Most of it lost and corupted.. I will not go with ms ever again if given the choise.
+Elie Azagoury "but the company is really behaving borderline bully. When Bill was there I felt their products were horrid but the company was mostly trustworthy." What do you mean? How are they acting like a bully now? Also, I think your history of MS is a little… off. It's widely known that under Gates' leadership they were predatory, threatened vendors into doing what they wanted, and were sued by the DOJ for antitrust practices. Now… I think he's doing awesome things these days, and he's certainly not the only CEO to ever act that way. Jobs was pretty famous for being a dick to work for as well.
+Justin Mangum THANK YOU! Seriously, just dropping "I will never trust that company again.I am former dissatisfied customer and am very disapointed by there behavors socially." is sort of meaningless and provides no context.
I think Ubuntu is mostly user-friendly-ish… and I kinda dig on Mint with Cinnamon for the work they're doing in that realm too. But I agree… I couldn't give my mom either of them and expect her to use them.
Agreed on NuGet; it's awesome. I've also run many flavors of Linux but I keep coming back to Windows as my daily driver. I can tell you the one OS I DON'T like… OSX. I made it my primary OS for a solid year and finally just sold the damn MBP (couldn't get it to run just Windows or Ubuntu without OSX being on there/virtualizing them; sucked cuz I loved the hardware).
+Paul Spoerry HAHA. OSX.. I won't touch Mac, because I really just don't like their OS (but that hardware… oh so nice)
Ubuntu has definitely come a long way, and is very nice. My work laptop is dual boot Windows / Ubuntu (with Ubuntu as default).
+Sherry Winter First off, sorry about your dyslexia. One of my sons has that as well, so I know the struggle (still trying to get him reading at the level he should be). Get some color tinted glasses or film (I kid you not. Got some for my son, they worked amazingly). I'll ignore all the grammar somehow….
Now, you say "Now I have had over 20 years working on microsoft windows, yes even fixing them." yet then follow with "the last crashed cost me time, documents and about 17 hours of worlk Most of it lost and corupted.." This sounds very much like a corrupted hard drive, which is NOT a fault of Windows / MS. If it wasn't a bad HDD, then everyone knows you can just plug the drive into another PC and recover, especially someone who has been working on computers as long as yourself. You also state the computer slowing down over time. Well, I typically run an installation of Windows for at least 3 years, and only reinstall due to new version of the OS (or failed HDD, which does happen more recently now because my house has bad grounding…. need to get a UPS..) Point being, after 6 months, my PC is still running just fine, without doing any cleaning or anything at all. The biggest problem is drive fragmentation, but.. oh wait… Windows automatically defrags your drive when the computer is idle.
Now, onto the company itself, which you say is your biggest issue: they are noncompetitive and predatory. +Paul Spoerry already touched on that some, but I'd like to expand a little. I'm sorry you are upset that a company is in the business of, well, being in business. You want to jump at M$ for being closed source, etc, but, well, look at Apple, Oracle, pretty much any software corporation. They are all the same on this aspect. They are in business to make money. Not saying I like everything they do, but, sadly, this is what you expect from any large corporation. If you want to blast MS for that, fine, but don't forget to blast all the other companies while you're at it. Then go and build your own computer from scratch because I'm sure the hardware you are using also came from other companies that are in the business of making money, and you don't want to be a hypocrite, right?
" Here's the kicker not stable os..It by design is not stable if attacked"
If attacked. Please don't tell me you honestly believe Linux is immune to being attacked? It very much isn't. However, most of the consumer world would be Windows users, and you hit where the biggest market is. So, people who write malware and such will attack Windows. Also, Linux is a little more difficult in the fact that there are MANY distributions, so writing a single virus to attack "linux" would be difficult. Now, if someone wanted to write a virus for Ubuntu specifically, I'm pretty sure they could.
http://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/284124-myth-busting-is-linux-immune-to-viruses
Hate Microsoft all you want. They have the best IDE I've used (Paul, I like VS more than Eclipse, but Eclipse is still good too), a user-friendly OS that regular people can use, a nice cloud structure (Azure), and a lot of other amazing tools. Don't focus only on Windows; Microsoft has a LOT more than just that.
+Sherry Winter Sucks about the dyslexia. It's a big deal… I know in my state they won't even classify it as a learning disability so the public schools can't assign resources to it which is IN-SANE. My parents are both certified in helping kids with dyslexia and do private tutoring (my mom is a retired teacher).
+Justin Mangum Yeah OSX and I didn't get along. I have a lot of developer friends, some are like the uber devs that I very much look up to, so I gave it a try and went all in. Hated it. LOL.. personal preference thing though I suppose.
And you're spot on that Windows it targeted more because it has the largest install base so of course it'll be targeted first. It's the same reason Flash and Java get targeted… installed on everything.
Yeah, not sure what you'd be doing to your machines Sherry that would make them crap out that quickly. I have a Windows7 machine that was installed in 2010 and it's still running fine.
+Paul Spoerry Well, when it was Bill's company it didn't do anything even close to seizing another company's legit operation (no-ip case) and I can't remember if they were patent trolling as much as they do today (Android case). I also can't remember MS trying to police the internet back then (multple malware cases, MS is not the police). But maybe back then it was just news I didn't read, I'm not that old.
Anyways, why the Linux vs Windows contest? Some people do better with one and some do better with the other, as long as it's not Win8.
Also, I find Linux very user friendly, it's just a matter of accepting a new/different paradigm. I gave my mother one of my laptops and it had opensuse. I didn't do it on purpose, but she liked it and I had to get her a new laptop with opensuse on it before I could get my old laptop back. She's still using opensuse.
+Elie Azagoury In the no-ip case it seized 22 domains. So the people affected were subdomains. IMO, while a massive overreach and they totally f'd up because they didn't need all of them, they also shutdown botnets affecting over 7 million people. The people using a subdomain got screwed, but I'd be hard pressed to say people running on a subdomain lost a lot of money. No company is going to run it's business on a subdomain, or at least they shouldn't. Domain names are cheap, so is hosting. To be clear, I still have a subdomain hosted on No-IP and I've used them for years. I do NOT host my business domain names there though; I just use their dynamic dns service.
As to their past… let's see… they forced OEMs into paying for DOS even if they shipped it with another OS. They prevented OEMs from shipping Netscape as the default browser. They bundled IE into the OS and said they couldn't seperate them. Microsoft extracted from Apple an agreement to distribute Internet Explorer rather than Navigator on the desktop of Apple Macintosh computers. Microsoft threatened to cancel production of the Mac version of its Office application if Apple refused. They attempted to take over Java by using their monopoly level powers and introducing their own Java JVM that wasn't compliant with Sun's, made Java development tools that would not create OSS Java code, and colluded with Intel to crush Sun's java. They created their own Kerberos authentication system, which was a standard for authenticating passwords on Unix servers so that it would only work if you had Windows 2000 server.
Also… I didn't think there was a Win vs Linux debate going on. In fact myself and others have stated we use and like Linux. I've referenced Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora. I did say I didn't like RHEL and that it was a POS, but that's it. As for Win8, I have 8.1 and I like it. I'll admit I do not use the metro UI, I run Start8 and just skip right past that but other than that it's decent.
+Abhijit Das if I understand what you're saying, you're saying that Windows 10 isn't out yet. But it is, in the form of a technical preview. I'm running it in vmware