Voters’ ‘Bernie or Bust’ efforts persist despite Sanders’ vow not to be another Ralph Nader
In recent months, Bernie Sanders has transformed Dennis Brandau from a guy who hated politics into a first-time voter. On Tuesday, the 29-year-old line cook will proudly cast a ballot for the Vermont senator in Pennsylvania’s Democratic presidential primary.
For the record… I voted for Sanders in the primary. However, there's a harsh reality the super hard-core, 'I hate Hillary', 'Bernie or Bust' supporters that they need to realize. If you disagree with a two party system you need to start a lot sooner. Saying that you'll write him in… that you won't vote for the lesser of two evils again, and all that nonsense is nonsense. SANDERS KNOWS IT THAT'S WHY HE RAN ON THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET. It's also the reason he constantly bangs the drum that the Republicans can't be allowed to win. He'll align behind Hillary if she wins. He's already changed the conversation but this 'I'll take my ball and go home if I don't get my guy' attitude will only favor the other party.
I agree that Bernie has changed the conversation but I don't trust Hillary, never have and don't believe I ever will. The conversation has changed but have Hillary's convictions followed? Or will it be business as usual if she is elected?
+Ray Cornell What is a worse scenario, Hillary and a Trump/Cruz ticket? I hate nearly everything Hillary stands for and dearly wish Sander's would win the nomination. That said, I cannot in good conscious vote third party due to the loss of a Democratic vote. The benefit to the Republican party would far outweigh the loss to Hillary.
+Ray Cornell If you think Hillary won't help you – vote for Trump and hide your savings.
Male actors that their dad was an actor too?
Donald Trump will be an excellent centrist President. Even reading "Trump – Cruz ticket" made me laugh aloud! They HATE each other's guts, and I personally would NEVER vote for Cruz. Trump is Pro-America, and that's the America made of Blacks, Gays, Women, and working men. Hillary, however, is a liar, cheat, traitor and a murderer.
I've respected Sanders. He helped reveal a broken and corrupt voting system, which equally affects Republicans. Why do you think both the Establishment Republicans and Establishment Democrats HATE Donald Trump? Because they can't control him! They are terrified. All the invention about racist, bigot, blah blah blah, well, how else would you go about slandering someone? He's none of those things.
Hillary and Bernie will just take us one step closer into becoming a communist party (see my profile and find my post on the four stages of communism, starts with "SOMETHING Y'ALL SHOULD KNOW") They are socialists and that's against our constitution. Vote for Cruz!
Here's what you aren't getting: Trump is the lesser evil. Hillary's record shows how dangerous she is. Trump is an ass, but he's harmless compared to Hillary.
I think the American "addicts" need to hit rock bottom like the drug addicts do before they realize THEY THEMSELVES have to actively choose the planet's life (Bernie's platform) over it's death (from the profit-driven Oligarchy controlled Establishment).
Maybe 4 years of Trump or Hillary will get us there… but somewhere deep in my heart I fear Bernie is our last best hope.
After this close call, they will be sure to change the game so NO HONEST CHALLENGER EVER GETS IN AGAIN. BANK ON IT. If it's not a political revolution today, it's a bloody one tomorrow. Or we go quietly into the night forever.
+That Guy true, I'm not complaining with Trump. Basically I'll just be relieved if any true republican makes it to the office, as long as Hillary and Bernie don't. Trump or Cruz, its silly. Personally and frankly, I think Cruz should be Pres. and Trump perhaps vice president. Not that it will be that way, not that it may be possible, that's just my little "made up" scenario. But I'm not even old enough to vote so…. yeah
+Don Johnson 4 years of Hillary and America will no longer be free.
Vote for Cruz (or if not Trump) if u want to get America to be on the road to true freedom again
Boo Hiss.. No Sanders
+Lee P. Jr I agree, third party or write in would hand the White house to the Republicans and that would not be acceptable in my opinion. I was only questioning whether Hillary's convictions follow what she is now saying. +George Schu see above.
+K Smart You misunderstood my comment. Trump is a fool, and Cruz is a religious nutjob. Bernie is my man, but it's looking bleak for him.
+That Guy That's sad. Cruz is not a religious nutjob, I can't believe u. Do u even know what socialism is? Bernie wants free college, well who pays the professors, answer me that sir.
+K Smart – You think I'm going to vote for a religious nut job that denies science? Piss off! The world has seen enough damage done in the name of some god or another. No, America is unrecognizable today. It's got to go all the way to the bottom before people wake up. I wished there would be enough of us awakened by Bernie's commitment and message, but alas. It's looking like the oligarchy has already too much control to get a grass-roots candidate through the system, regardless of popular support.
In layman's terms, that means America is already fucked folks – there is no coming back from it. It's going to be a political revolution or a bloody one. Only the DNC can make that choice now, and their mouthpieces have spoken.
+K Smart 0/10, not rage inducing enough
+Jonathan Thompson I'm not a raging politician guy. I don't get mad. I'm not even old enough to vote so..yeah. I'm just smart with my politics, well, more like I listen to the truths from my family
You all miss the point of the :bernieorbust movement. To many of us, the issues that separate Trump from Hilary are not as important as income equality, environmental change, ending corporate welfare, and policing Wall Street. We will write in Bernie to show our dissatisfaction with the 2 party system, and we don't care who benefits from it. In doing so, we hope to start a progressive version of the Tea Party and take back the Democratic Party from conservative corporate Democrats. Hilary is even less aceptable than Trump because the Dems in Congress will have to support her as she allows fracking, continued big money corruption of our election process, job outsourcing via unfavorable trade agreements, Monsanto protection, and many other aspects. I for one will accept 4 years of Trump if it brings 8 years of Warren. So yeah, I am writing in Sanders even if he asks us to support Hilary.
Ha, u'll write in Bernie to bring on socialism.. Bernie wants free college for a stupid reason: Who's gonna pay the professors who work there, or is Bernie gonna enslave all college professors to teach for free.
+K Smart You are way out of your depth, but I'll answer. We've spent over a trillion dollars fighting the gulf wars, and all we accomplished was fostering terrorists. Bernie voted no, and if he'd gotten his way, that trillion dollars could have been spent here at home. If it can't be done, how are so many countries able to do it? Aren't we the greatest country in the world?
+George Schu voting for Trump is a dumb move. If Hillary loses 55-45 to Trump the lesson the DNC will learn is that they need to run somebody even MORE conservative next time. If Hillary loses 45-40 to Trump with 15% of us voting Green then the DNC will realize that Clinton is the new McGovern and that they should have used the superdelegates to stop her.
Either way though it does open up a slot for a progressive in 2020, which is a win.
By the way, if Bernie did run as an independent, he would not be a Ralph Nader. Nader had no chance of winning as he never established enough support. By entering the primaries, Bernie–who the latest polls having him lead Clinton nationally–has established a strong enough base to win. If only 30% of the Dems vote for him, and 65% of independents support him, and 15% of the GOP (which has many voters saying they would vote for him over Trump, PLUS the new voters he brings in, he would win the general election. ((30%*33% dems)+(65%*42% independents) +(15%*30% GOP)+(new voters)) is greater than what either Trump or Hilary would receive.
+Rich Freeman No, sir. They'll realize they should have nominated the candidate with the best chance in the general election.
+K Smart You do realize that they manage to have free college all over Europe (and free healthcare) and yet nobody is chained to their lecterns, right?
We even have had free primary/secondary school in the US for quite a while now without forcing anybody to teach. The last time I checked the public school teachers even tend to get paid more on average.
K smart…you really should read his platform. Your comments shows you don't understand his plan.
+K Smart I know you're not a politician, you're a troll. A bad one hence your score. You all most convinced me but you said smart politics, and anybody knows you don't insult a state you will be campaigning for in the future so…
wow Trump brought the Truth to the People while the Reps hid it and the Demos cleaned it with Lies …….. Hilary blows smoke where she goes and its called whatever you want to hear Smoke= Where is the FBI?
+That Guy ok there are much better things that trillion dollars can go to, but even if we did spend it to pay college professors, isn't giving out free college just making America less productive, I mean, kids won't get more responsible by not having to work to earn college. Plus, that money won't last forever. Socialism leads to communism, its bad. Not a single communist country actually succeeded. What do u want to do, destroy our perfect constitution. And besides, the gulf war was not stopped, and we don't have the trillion dollars, so where do u plan to get the money to pay the professors. And isn't it the peoples jobs to do all this schooling stuff, its not the governments job to interfere in our lives. Plus, all those on welfare from the government. Every single American who get's "free housing" or free anything, all that isn't free. Tax paying, jard-job working Americans like my dad pay taxes to the government, and its the governments job to give that money back, not give it to some people who are to lazy and misguided to support themselves. If anyones disabled, then fine, we can help them out a little, but all these capable people being supported by the government, or ultimately people like my family, are just lazy and think they can just have the government take care of them. That's wrong. That money we are paying could go to the new fancy park, or a new skyscraper. Socialism doesn't work.
Guys, cut +K Smart some slack. He's new to politics, and he's confused, but he has not been offensive.
+K Smart I think the fact that you described a document that need argubly 20+ revisions know as amendments already weakens your argument. Not to mention a country with socalist programs, like Medicare, Veterans Affairs, Social Security, does not make one communist. The current democratic socialist countries are not close to communist due to the democratic part so it really comes as you based this more on opinon that fact. Since u said u can't even vote yet, I suggest take philosophy so you better learn how to construct logical arguments as people will pick they apart like others are doing right now effectively.
+K Smart You haven't figured out who the real welfare queens are. They're not poor people working 50 hours a week who still need food stamps. The real welfare queens are big businesses that aren't paying their fair share.
Listen up. The conservative stance is based on the concept of benevolent businesses. For example Walmart is a big business, so it must be good for America. Nothing could be further from the truth. The people that work for Walmart are the same ones that need food stamps. Keep an open mind, and question authority.
most on food stamps are white
+That Guy Confused is right, that why I suggest taking classes to work on his(her?) arguments but its hard to have that not sound condescending on the internet.
+Jonathan Thompson Everyone has to start somewhere. I think some young people gravitate toward the conservative side, because it's an easier side to defend if you don't know the details.
Bernie or Bust!
I will never vote for a republican. Bernie is my choice. I could never bring myself to vote for Hillary. Nothing good can come from her being president
#neverHillary
Maybe it is time to end the two party system?
If Bernie and his flock truly need to live within the confines of a socialist dictatorship, I am sure they can go someplace else and find one willing to accept them. Please take Comrade Clinton with you when you go. Thanks!
I see that (guy and k wanna be smart ) still refuse to see how good (Ms Hillary Clinton) is the best candidate for America. But to each hater we don't need your vote
+Wyze Wildfire you already live in one, but I guess you prefer corporate socialism and your tax dollars going to oil companies instead of yourself. You must prefer Billionaires picking your leaders instead of a democratic process.
+Gaylon Davis yes if you love war, poisoned water, vote Hillary!
I love it Bernie Sanders the lifetime politian has made these fool's believe he can cure the ills with the Government.
Understand he is a lifetime politician, you know the same people he blames for our problems, his constant attack on both sides of the Isle is no way to unite the parties or the Nation. This is the Amendment king. …no bills of his own just add on legislation.
Sorry you all fell hook line and sinker. The Democrats should never endorse this imposter.
Without the Democrats he wouldn't have gotten his platform off the ground he owes Alliance at the very least to this Party. Drop out!
+Gary McDonald Fuck "The Party", issues matter, not the party. Move to China or North Korea if you into Party worship. Both the Democrat and Republican parties are nothing more than outhouses for .001% to shit through onto the people. Because the system is so fucking rigged, Bernie had to use the Democratic platform to have a chance at getting elected. You seem to be proud that you only have 2 choices.
Trump is the lesser evil.
IF ANY OF YOU THINK Sanders or Clinton WILL BE BETTER FOR America YOU NEED TO TAKE YOUR MED;S OR SMOKE ANOTHER ONE OH FOOLISH PEOPLE.
It's always the "team players" who cannot see an honest argument.
You say" But the woman is campaigning to ruin all the groundwater in America. She has an horrendous history as an arms dealer!"
And they say: "But the TEAM! The TEAM MUST win!"
Both sides are the same team, with minor variation.
You can't threaten people to do what they know is against their own best interests.
The point of an election is to be heard. I will not vote for something I do not want.
Why do we keep getting these corporate candidates?
Because they can show millions of votes they received…..
from idiots who wanted to avoid a THIRD choice…
So they got what they DIDN'T want, because THEY VOTED FOR IT!
Freaking morons and their stupid arguments with no logic…
Better to have two than a handful of racist Republicans
The real (Black Lives Matter) is the future of this country
Who does Hillary really represent?
http://trofire.com/2016/04/24/empire-files-abby-martin-exposes-hillary-clinton-really-represents/
The people and for the people
+That Guy I'm a she thank u
+#1 dad You are a frightened sick puppy.
+K Smart You don't get to be offended when you have a gender non-specific screen name. Grammar dictates that masculine pronouns be used when gender is not known.
I don't know what to do. I like Hillary just fine. I'd heist a cold beer with her…maybe. Trusting her to run the country not so much.
Yeah but what if Trump also runs third party, which I think will definitely happen if the RNC ends up with Cruz as the nominee? Why not have a battle royale with Cruz vs. Hillary vs. Trump vs. Bernie? I actually think he would have the best chance to come out of the maelstrom.
+Carl Nash
I think your scenario is completely feasible. I think Bernie would do well if that were to happen, but it would take a huge commitment on the part of his supporters to make it happen. There would be some election law issues to deal with from state to state.
I'd argue he ran on the Democratic ticket because he knew he'd get exposure, which he wouldn't have on an independent ticket. just my two cents.
I'm sorry but we can't expect people to throw out their sense of ethics and cast their vote for a candidate that they believe is dishonest. It's not fair to them and it's psychologically abusive.
I too believe that Bernie may well be our last best hope … the thought of him falling into line behind "The Evil One" is very distasteful … I say Bernie or Bust … !
I won't be voting for either party, I'll be voting Jill Stein most likely.
This is nothing to be bragging about. Is she the new Ralph Nader?
The Green Party is long standing liberal party and Jill Stein is a great candidate. The party deserves more support, especially from Independents
+Carl Nash I'd be down for that if it were possible and they both did that. But if it becomes a two party race, then it's a two party race.
+Lauchlin MacGregor I've never even heard of her; but totally agree a third party needs more visibility. I think realistically that it's to late in the game at this point but I'm totally supportive of that.
The idea of a Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton is extraordinarily frustrating to me. It doesn't alter fundamental ideology of the two parties right now though. And even though she's not what I would choose… she still has to work with the Democratic party if she wants to get ANYTHING done so there's a bit of the party holding her to things that won't happen under a Republican presidency.
We have a two party system. As I've said a boatload of times, if that wasn't true… Sanders wouldn't have run on the Democratic ticket. Sanders wouldn't continue to say that no matter what the larger issue is defeating the furthering of Republican political agendas. So if you want to further discrimination, hatred, vitriol then do that. Otherwise vote for a party ideology to win. It's literally what Sanders will say if he doesn't get the nomination.
FACT: No third-party candidate has ever won a U.S. presidential election. The strongest showing for a third-party candidate came in 1912, when former President Teddy Roosevelt left the Republican Party. No write-in has ever come close. Which is why parties are afraid of splitting the ticket.
Please don't confuse my statements as explicitly pro-Hillary. Because that's not the case. Not at all. My statements are explicitly anti-Republican (specifically the current crop… I've voted Republican in the past). Sorry if I'm not cool but there's idealism and pragmatism; I roll on the pragmatic side.
+Paul Spoerry I understand what you're meaning, but there are established third parties who have every right to be supported. A Democrat should certainly consider the party, but an independent also has other interests. Many have voted in the primaries to support Sanders, but that doesn't mean they owe allegiance to the Democratic party.
What the Hell. Why in the world would you want socialism to enter this country? Just look at what has happened in Europe. And after all the things the United States has done to stop the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, we are going to buy in to this crap. Plus If Bernie get elected as president there is going to be revolution and his motto will have to change to ¨A past we would want to be in¨ Even Trump and Hillary are better choices. I would like to talk to Bernie and convince him that socialism is a big pile of BS and it shall never penetrate this country and it Constitutional Values. We have the right to guns and not free education? My God Bless America
+Bruce Wayne socialism already exists in this country. Get a clue.
You seam to be missing the point of voting for someone other then the GOP or Dem nominee. The point is that you should only vote for someone, in the running, that you believe in. Saying that you should vote someone who is mealy put in similar classification as your ideal candidate because they have a better chance of winning then the candidate you actually want, is something I have an issue with. You are assuming that ppl are ether Democrat or Republican. There are many ppl who will vote for someone from ether party. I have, in the past, voted for Republicans, Democrats, as well as independents. If Bernie drops out I will not automatically find myself viewing Hilary as the best alternative. I could also decide that I the victory of ether Hilary of Trump are equally dissatisfying, thus voting for a third party or off the ticket would not take away from a candidate I in anyway support. idk who I will vote for atm.
+Bruce Wayne…I know Bruce Wayne…I've followed Bruce Wayne for decades, and you Sir are no Batman!
+Lauchlin MacGregor I'm not addressing voting for a third party. If there is a third party candidate, or even if you just support a third party, then go for it. Sanders himself has specifically said defeating the Republicans should be their (he and Clinton) goal.
+Joshua V I'm not missing that point at all. I too have voted for more than one party.
+Paul Spoerry I think you bring up a good point. If the candidate you support then endorses another candidate, then certainly that frames things differently imho.
I'm a big Sanders supporter. I'm not voting for Clinton.
+Lauchlin MacGregor I meant Hard core socialism. I know we already have soft core socialism and a soft core socialist as a president.
+Bruce Wayne if you think Sanders would somehow convert the US to hardcore socialism , then you're not getting it…sorry. The amount of things he would have to do to employ such a thing is laughable to think of seriously.
Y'all seem like socialists. Goodbye freedom! 🙁 🙁 Do you all even really know how socialism works, it leads to communism, but it also takes money away from you! and other freedoms. I might be under the age to even seem to know about this, but I evidently have more truth than all of you.
+K Smart socialism does not actually lead to communism. It can, but the US is nowhere near either possibility.
This quote (and his answer) really made me laugh: "Saying that socialism leads to communism is like saying that evangelical christian preachers convert people to catholicism. It's not true, but the truth isn't any better than the misconception." (https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080114102514AAESdaR)
+Lauchlin MacGregor so you think, yet so many signs of the process are evidence of leading to communism. We have been infiltrated since the sixties, false doctrines being taught in school, people brainwashed with video games and media, This country is nothing like its prospering state back in like the 1940's, everyone back then had a spirit for America, were zealot for their country, now everyone's divided, and the communists like in Russia know that a country divided cannot stand.
+K Smart it really sounds more like you've been indoctrinated than anything else. But hey…if you want to go back to the 1940s…go for it…just not in this country.
+Lauchlin MacGregor this country was 75% better in the 1940's, and indoctrinated I am not, public school indoctrinate our kids with crap, I'm homeschooled and I know more. My sisters are now attending a public school they have straight A's, and yet they are not allowing one of my sisters to graduate.
+K Smart well, you're absolutely wrong in a myriad of different areas…but you can go ahead and enjoy that. Certainly this country will continue to move forward while you whine about the past.
+Lauchlin MacGregor I'm whining about the past. Its obvious that u are for communism, u may not know it, but whoever you got your views from may be for communism, but if he isn't, he may not know it but somewhere in that line is a communist, indoctrinating someone with your ideas, then that guy tells someone else, they may not know it, but they are promoting communism. Good luck finding truth.
+K Smart lol, sorry…I don't get my information from one person. I simply understand the complexities of political ideologies by learning about them from multiple sources of information.
As for being "for communism", that would not be my ideological alignment.
Discussing political ideologies is not the same thing as indoctrination…..far from it…it's actually called a conversation. That is where people discuss ideas. I'm sure you understand that some forms of communism don't quite appreciate open ideas and discussion…though you may just group them all together.
+Lauchlin MacGregor ok. well, sorry that you are indoctrinating yourself with such ideas. read your history books and learn how most of them don't work
+K Smart you really just need to retire the word indoctrinating. Its meaning is obviously beyond your grasp.
You might also attempt to read responses before responding based on what you think they say. One example: I never mentioned my opinion on socialism (which to you is the same as communism) in my comments.
There is no way I or any informed voter should be expected to cast our vote for someone as deceitful and unaccomplished as #Hillary2016. We recognize for the first time in our lives we have a true champion for us, the people and not some arrogant politician whose "I'm a woman" rallying cry means nothing in terms of policy and whose record reflects her primary objective is to protect the #establishment.
+Randall Snyder, Jr. so, does that mean you're writing in Sanders or are you voting for Trump or Cruz?
Thinking that casting your vote in the presidential race is THE thing that will break the cycle of lesser of two evils is to ignore the past. The reason third parties don't play a larger role in our politics dates back to 1967 (they'd been pushing for it prior but that's when the hammer dropped). It was then that Congress eliminated multi-seat districts through the Uniform Congressional Districts Act. Prior to that it was possible for a candidate to be elected with as little as 10 percent of the vote (because a multi-seat district could have two or more elected representatives).
With as little as 10% needed (depending on the number of candidates running) it would allow candidates from minor parties to win office. That in turn allowed them to gain political traction (which is what you want… to get rid of the evil cronies and lifetime politicians – like the Bush, Clinton, Sanders, etc of our system) and eventually participate in a meaningful way on the national stage.
Our current single seat districts favor parties that can gobble up 50%+ of the voters. This is exactly why Sanders ran on the Democratic ticket instead of another party. THIS IS WHAT IS SO FRUSTRATING that people don't get.
If you want to make actual change… go change that. Even a Sanders presidency (again… which IS what I want) won't alter the fundamental process by which all of this shit happens in the first place because the underlying system in place doesn't allow it to happen. If you really want to stop the polarizing nature of politics you can't seriously believe that casting a vote in the presidential election for something other than the two major parties will make one shred of difference. It won't.